"Possible" Meaning Of "Schicklgruber"
Now, as to what "Schicklgruber" means, I don't really know for certain, and I have checked many sources; however, I have a "possible" explanation. The second part of the name is no problem, as it is the same as English "grub" (see Word History below), a verb little used anymore, but which means "to dig;" thus giving us "grubber," "a digger," and the compound term "moneygrubber," for a person whose whole life centers around making ("digging for") money in any way. "Schickl" is the problem. It is Bavarian dialect and I found some "supposed" meanings.** (see further, below) Keep in mind, names often undergo spelling changes, as I noted above, "Hiedler" became "Hitler," and there were various spellings of "Hiedler" before that. In the German language world, dialects prevailed far longer than overall use of standard German, and names usually have a long history. If you are a regular reader, you have probably noticed an occasional "Word History" will deal with a word little used in modern England, EXCEPT in names or place names, because the names go back to a time when the word was commonly used. Names also often came from jobs a person did.
So, this is pure speculation on my part, but German has "Schicht, which means "layer or strata of earth." The southern dialects frequently use "l," "el," "li,"or "le" at the end of words to denote "small," or "smaller." The dialect form could have changed the "ch" to "ck," and the "t" sound could have been dropped when the ending "l" was added. As to the ending "l," while a totally different dialect, Swabian in southwestern Germany uses "Häusle" for "a little house (Haus);" or, "cottage." Anyway, "Schicht" would tie in with "gruber" ("digger"), perhaps meaning "ditch digger," from the notion of "one who digs through layers of the earth," perhaps from agriculture and digging irrigation ditches or even wells? Some of the "supposed" meanings I mentioned earlier also seem to tie in with this possible meaning, as they gave "mud" as the meaning, possibly a later development. I also saw "manure" as a possible meaning, and this could have developed from "mud," if that meaning is correct. Of course too, I also wondered IF the "manure" meaning may have come from those who were making a political statement, as Hitler obviously (and correctly) stirs strong emotions in people; thus making Hitler's ancestor's "manure diggers, or perhaps shovelers/shovellers."
Now, German also has "Schicksal," which means "fate, destiny." Dialect could have produced "Schickl," perhaps with a meaning of "grave digger;" that is, "one who digs for people who have met their fate." The thing is, sources indicate High German did not acquire the word until the 1500s, and it came from Low German and Dutch, as "schicksel," and essentially meant "chance," which then became "destiny, fate." I could not determine how Low German and Dutch got the term. I even checked to see if I could find a similar term in English, that would now be archaic, but I had no luck. English, Low German and Dutch are all close relatives, and Middle and Old English vocabulary did not have as many foreign borrowings as modern English.
So, these are just theories, but if either might be correct, I lean toward the first.
* For a little more, see my article "Hitler The Jew:" http://pontificating-randy.blogspot.com/2010/10/hitler-jew.html
** They may be correct, but I cannot verify that.
WORD HISTORY:
Grub-This now little used verb is closely related to both "grave" and "groove." It goes back to Indo European "ghrebh/ghrabh," which had the notion of "to dig, to scratch." This gave its Old Germanic offspring "grubb," which then gave West Germanic "grubbjan," both with the same basic meaning. This gave Old English (Anglo-Saxon) a presumed "grubbian,"^ which then became "grubben," before the more modern version. Moneygrubber was formed from the noun form "grubber," which means "digger." Further, "grubby" ("dirty") came from the notion of digging in the dirt. "Grub," the noun meaning "larva," seems to have been derived from the notion that many larvae live and dig in the soil. The slang American form "grub," meaning food, seems to have come from the idea of birds eating the grubs (larvae). The word has many forms in other Germanic languages, because, as I mentioned above, even in English it is closely related to "grave" and "groove." Just some examples: German has the verb "graben," which means "to dig," and its 1st and 3rd person singular past tense form is "grub." Further, German has "grübeln," which means "to ponder, to consider," from the notion "dig through your thoughts, mind." German also has the noun "Grubber," "digger, cultivator." Some Low German dialect has "growe" which means "to dig." From what I could find, Frisian has "grave," which means "to dig," Dutch has "graven," also meaning "to dig."
^ No written evidence of this word has been found, but it presumed that Old English had this form or similar, as its West Germanic relatives had forms (English is West Germanic).
Labels: Bavarian Dialect, English, etymology, Germanic languages, Hitler, Schicklgruber
17 Comments:
I wonder if Johnnie has seen this. He has been studying German.
I see it now, Seth. Interesting!
This is very enlightening... thank you for posting.
It could come from the word "schnickel" - a "schniklefritz" is a trouble maker - "schicklegruber" could be someone who dug up trouble. "schniklefritz" is a term of endearment for chlldren, and my father used "schnicklegruber" en lieu of "schniklefritz" which is kind of a New York/Yiddish/German thing.
Shikel, Shickler, etc come from German southern colloquial shickelen, to trade -- which I think in turn derives from a very old term for money, the shekel. In other words, "money-grubber."
Dude! Thank u for all yr research! People like u make the Internet a fascinating and educational bonanza. Keep it up!
Very interesting information. Thank you for your efforts.
What if I told you it was a Jewish name?
Schicklgruber means sump digger in the Waldviertel dialect, acc to a poster here: http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question87448.html
What if Hitler's ancestors' profession was a grave digger? That would make sense to what you translated the words above. People's surnames back then were usually your ancient father's profession or a town you were from. As of now I'm thinking Hitler's ancient surname was "Gravedigger" until someone can come up with a better hypothesis.
I have to concur with Jamie. My grandfather (who had strong German roots) also used these words when I was a child as a form of endearment. I'm 56 now (9/21/2017) and remember him using them quite clearly. While I grew up in Wisconsin (and my grandfather was born there as well), my experience is very similar to what Jamie describes.
fate of the digger, moneygrave, fate of the grave digger, luck of the digger, lucky grave.... ironic how Hitler dug massive graves and ended up shooting himself in a grave he dug himself, which was his buncker.. hence the fate of the grave digger... Schicklgruber
My Beloved Grandmother{ who was German }, explained to me [ at a young age ] that schicklgruber meant " shit digger "! She was quite a Woman!
My Beloved Grandmother { who was German }, explained to me [ at a young age ], schicklgruber meant " manure digger "! She was quite a Woman--and Very direct!
Shickl ie money as in shekel, would have been working class slang for money in a Jewish community around 1500 on (Czech / Bohemian area). Grubber is easily digger or what has become 'grabber' in modern English. Therefore a Jewish money digger or grabber would be the logical conclusion - but words, names and local variations are incredibly deceptive and sometimes mean the complete opposite with the tiniest differences in selling
Or a derogatory name of Jewish / German origin for a tax collector? (Shekel grabber, Shekel shoveller).
Anyway, I like that money and dirt are perhaps interchangeable. Grave digger is a bit prophetic.
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